=== pitti [~martin@195.227.105.180] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
=== pitti [~martin@195.227.105.180] has left #ubuntu-meeting []
=== Simira [rpGirl@m146i.studby.ntnu.no] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
=== doko [doko@dsl-082-082-191-140.arcor-ip.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
=== pitti [~martin@195.227.105.180] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
=== fabbione [~fabbione@port49.ds1-van.adsl.cybercity.dk] has left #ubuntu-meeting []
=== mvo_ [~egon@ip181.135.1511I-CUD12K-01.ish.de] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
=== fabbione [~fabbione@port49.ds1-van.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
=== dilinger [dilinger@mouth.voxel.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
=== Keybuk [scott@descent.netsplit.com] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
=== johnlevin [~johnlevin@dsl-80-42-106-74.access.uk.tiscali.com] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
=== mdz [~mdz@69-167-148-207.vnnyca.adelphia.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
=== ogra_ [~ogra@s217-115-139-139.colo.hosteurope.de] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
04:58lamontmdz: reading scrollback, looks like someone wants bootfloppy support - maybe for the next TB agenda???
=== lamont ducks
=== seb128 [~seb128@ANancy-151-1-30-146.w83-196.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
04:59mdzlamont: see /topic :-P
=== sivang [sivan@muse.19inch.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
05:00mdzKamion, mako, elmo, sabdfl: time
05:00Kamionhere
=== mvo_ waves
05:00Kamionhaven't seen mako yet today
05:01lamontmdz: lol
05:01mdzcalling mako
=== sivang waves back
05:02mdzmako says he is on his way
=== Kamion sends nudges in the directions of sabdfl and elmo
05:02makohi
05:03Kamionopi's first on the agenda; do we have him
05:03Kamion?
05:03mdzno, we don't
05:03Kamionnot in #ubuntu either
05:04ogra_do i have to add myself to the agenda, or is approval of new members/maintainers a standard proc for the meeting ?
=== silbs [~sbsm0084@host217-37-231-28.in-addr.btopenworld.com] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
05:04makoogra_: put yourself on the agenda
05:04ogra_ok :)
05:05Kamionnew maintainers are a fairly standard part of the agenda, but please put it there explicitly
05:05Kamion(as in, NM in general)
05:06makoso.. sabdfl and elmo
=== amu [~amu@amu.developer.debian] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
05:06KamionI pinged them on #canonical, no reply yet
05:06mdz2/4 is a quorum, let's get going
05:06makoshould i call sabdfl?
05:06makoi.e., has anyone else called mark?
05:07Kamionnot me
05:07ogra_added :)
05:07makoalright. i'm calling
05:07lamontsilbs might be in shouting distance, though, no?
05:09KamionI'll phone elmo
05:09makohe's on his way
05:09mako2 minutes
=== sabdfl [~mark@host217-37-231-28.in-addr.btopenworld.com] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
05:09makoor much less than 2 minutes
05:09mako:)
05:09sabdflhi all
05:10Kamionelmo's coming
05:10sivanghey sabdfl
05:10pittihi sabdfl
=== elmo [~james@83-216-141-215.jamest298.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
05:10ogra_hi
05:10mdz4 for 4
05:10Kamionok, quorate
05:10makobam
05:10sabdflleaders!
05:10sabdflof the free world!
05:10Kamionfirst item is Polish community leader
05:11sabdflis emil here?
05:11makoevidently not
05:11Kamionhe's "opi" on IRC I believe, but can't see him around
05:11makoi've emailed or talked thim almost every day this week, but i can't find him now
05:11Kamion16:11 -!- opi: No such nick/channel
05:11mdzwe should add a note to the agenda page
05:12mdzto the effect that if you add an agenda item, you ought to show up to the meeting ;-)
05:12sabdflwhat do we want to establish before appointing a new country lead
05:12sabdflmartijn? smurfix?
05:12smurfixI told people to Be There
05:12ogra_hmm, abelli is missing too, he's the second tpoic...
05:12Kamionmdz: done
05:12smurfixThere are a couple of wiki pages about this already.
05:13smurfixSuggestions for improvements welcome
05:13smurfix(notably CountryTeamHowto)
05:13sabdflis it necessary to have the CC approve country team leads?
05:13Kamionmako and smurfix are the nominated contacts in CountryTeam
05:13sabdflor could smurfix just liase with them directly?
05:13makoright, i've talked to everyone on the agneda about this
05:14sabdflfor new maintainers we generally whip around and say "do we know this person can handle it"
05:14sabdflwhat's the drill for country team leads?
05:14Kamioncountry team leads are supposed to be community interfaces/liaisons
05:14makothey need to be active in the community
05:14makoand in their country
05:15Kamionso I think we at the very least need to know who they are, and ideally arrange that there's no disagreement about who the point of contact is
05:15mdzthey will represent Ubuntu to their locality
05:15sabdflas far as i'm concerned, if there's only one person who is keen, and they haven't done anything that makes me uncomfortable, we should just let 'em run at it
05:15makoand they need to have at least run things by smurf
05:15sabdflmako: agreed
05:15smurfixagree
05:15sabdfland we would help to resolve potential problems
05:15makosabdfl: right, this is nothing we can't undo
05:15Kamionalso leaders are responsible for domain registration
05:15Kamion(it seems)
05:16smurfixwe've discussed pre-registering a common domain set
05:16smurfixubuntu-CC.de for instance
05:16makothat discussion is very active ATM
05:16smurfixs/de/org/
05:16smurfixduh ;-)
05:16makoi thinks it's probably a bit premature to bring up here :)
05:16sabdflfor example, if there is a country where many ubuntu community members are unhappy with the team lead, we would need to be willing to get to the root of the issue and sort it out
05:16smurfixmako: that was going to be my next sentence
05:16makorealistically, i think in active leads is  going to be the biggest problem
05:16sabdflnl.ubuntu.com would be easy for us to setup internally too
05:16sivangsabdfl: I have asked about this around, I think we need some sort of official master doc in english for people on country teams wanting to approach their govs for investment of time/code/manpower in advancing the ubuntu localization infrastrucutre. most noteable they ask "Who will we get support from? WHat's the official company stand about it?" sort of questions.
05:17sabdflsivang: good points
05:17sabdflsivang: could you draft up such a document?
05:17sivangsabdfl: yes, I can.
05:17sabdflgreat!
05:17johnlevinQuestions were raised about involvement with businesses on the Country Team UK thread (ubuntu-users) as well
05:18sivangsabdfl: I would need some info back from you at the other end on of this ofcourse :)
05:18sabdflsivang: i'll read and respond to a draft
05:18sivangsabdfl: k, tnx.
=== mako wants to try to poke me back in the direction of the agenda
05:18sabdflsmurfix: are you happy with abelli and emil?
05:18makosabdfl: thanks
05:18Kamionjohnlevin: seeing as there's no language barrier, it seems to me that a useful UK team would be highly involved in local advocacy; but that's later in the agenda
05:19sabdfli'm happy for smurfix basically to approve new country team leads unless he has reservations, then bring those to us
05:19sabdfljohnlevin: i'd love to see a uk country team
05:20smurfixsabdfl: I'm more-or-less "not unhappy". I did emphasize that they should show up here though
05:20smurfixI'd suggest to postpone them
=== sivang notes that there is some frustration among his country team members, mainly due to rosetta not containing the d-i tranlsation po yet. could this be arranged some time soon? also, there's a need to know what's/where's the latest version of transt. in ros is. people noted they don't want to rework a translation already done by the gnome il tems for example.
05:21sabdflmako, elmo, kamion, are you happy to delegate appointment of country team leads to smurfix for cases where he has no reservations?
05:21makono, absolutely not
05:21Kamionmako: ?
05:21makooh wait
05:21makoi mean i have no reservations!
05:21ogra_lol
05:22smurfixHeh
05:22makosorry.. i parsed taht wrong
05:22makoyes, i am happy
05:22makosorry about that
05:22mdzand for cases where he does have reservations, it should come to this council, or something else?
05:22sabdflthis council
05:22sabdflalso, if there is tension or something that needs sorting out he could bring it here
05:23sabdflkamion, elmo?
05:23elmosorry, what powahs would the country team leader have?
05:23sabdflcollects the beer money...
05:23sivangsabdfl: hehe
05:23elmobut basically, no objections from me
05:23smurfixI'd still put them on the CC agenda though, but default to OK
05:24sabdflgood point
05:24sabdflyes, that way it's transparent that we are setting up new teams
05:24sivangsmurfix: just to get that documented and archives somehwere..
05:24smurfixsure
05:24sivang*archived
05:24sabdflok cool
05:25KamionI have no problems with smurfix approving
05:25sabdfli think that's consensus
05:25mdzI don't see a proper web page about country teams; is there one?
05:25mdz(there should be)
05:25sabdflso smurfix will lead, people can be appointed by him, he'll announce new appointments to the cc on our agenda
05:25Kamionmdz: wiki/CountryTeams
05:25sabdflsmurfix: thanks for taking this on, it's going to be a big part of 2005 for us
05:25mdzKamion: I think there ought to be a /teams/country/
=== mako would move to chua and hikesh to the malaysian team but they're not here either
05:26mdzwiki pages are invisible to someone who is browsing the site to find information about the project
05:26sabdflmdz: agreed
05:26mdzalso, the new membership process discussed in Mataro needs to be documented
05:26sabdflare the team pages editable or locked?
05:26Kamionwe could link to the wiki from /community/teams
=== jiyuu0 [~jiyuu0@219.95.59.169] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
05:27sabdflno, mdz is right, new teams are important enough to make the main site
05:27KamionI think it would be useful to continue to have that on the wiki, since the people doing this stuff usually don't have super website editing powers
05:27mdzthey are all editable as far as I see
05:27smurfixsabdfl: editable
05:27sabdflmuch of the detail will stay in the wiki where it is more dynamic
05:27makojiyuu0: we're talkinga bout country team and country team leads
05:27mdzperhaps the top-level teams page should be locked (adding new teams)
05:27smurfixI'm adding some stuff to CTeamLeader atm
05:27jiyuu0mako, ok
05:27sivangsabdfl: also, what sort of domain names canonical wants to get a hold of ? for instance, in th .il TLD, ubuntulinux.[org|co] .il are already registered, so is ubuntu.co.il, do we need ubuntu.org.il also? this has come up to me while working out the .il domains...
05:28makojiyuu0: most of the people who were on the agenda today did not show up.. but silbs reminded me that you guys were interested and active in pushing stuff in malaysia
05:28mdzKamion: even if the /teams/country/ page links to the wiki for the individual teams, /teams/country/ itself should be a proper part of the top-level nav
05:28sabdflsivang: yes please, and we'll refund any registration costs
05:28ogra_mdz: isnt that enough ? for NM : http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/NewDevelopersAndMaintainers
05:28jiyuu0mako, yes... true.. we r currently using ubuntu for our workshops
05:28mdzKamion: that's only edited when adding new teams, and will contain information about the process of creating a new team, etc.
05:28sivangsabdfl: on my way :)
05:28jiyuu0and promoting it to our students
05:28sabdflmdz: agreed. smurfix could you add a country teams page?
05:29Kamionmdz: alright, that's fine by me certainly
=== mako nods
05:29smurfixUmm, there are already four pages about various aspects of the country team process
05:29sabdfljiyuu0: would one of you guys like to be a Malaysian country team leader?
05:29smurfixI'm unsure what you think is missing
05:29mdzsmurfix: its location within the structure of the site
05:29sabdflsmurfix: hold on, will do it
05:30mdzmako: what about the membership process?
05:30jiyuu0sabdfl, yes... my partner has written to mako regarding this
05:30sabdfljiyuu0: great! smurfix is overall leader of the country teams
05:31makomdz: i got distracted by cd numbers yesterday and i didn't finish writing that up :-/
05:31mdzmako: the notes at NewDevelopersAndMaintainers should be the basis for a new web page describing the process
05:31mdzah, ok
05:31makomdz: i've been working on it
05:31mdzbut it's on your list, great
05:31makomdz: i was trying to get it done for this meeting
05:31Kamionok, so does that basically deal with the first two agenda items?
05:31jiyuu0sabdfl, i think smurf should be aware too as we email him regarding our activities and plans
05:31Kamionif so, we can move on
05:32sabdfljohnlevin: any firther comment on a uk team?
05:32sabdflfurther, even
05:32smurfixsure
05:32johnlevinThe question with the UK-CC is, given that so much of the CC Team tasks are to do with language, translation etc, what would it do?
05:33sabdfladvocacy
05:33sabdflbeer
05:33RiddellI would prefer a GB team since it's the best geographical fit (someone in northern ireland would be more likely to take part in a irish team)
05:33Kamionas I mentioned above, I think much of its activity ought to be in local advocacy
05:33KamionRiddell: controversial :-)
05:33Riddelljohnlevin: it could organise en-gb translation
05:33Kamionen_GB's not really that interesting except to obsessives :)
05:33sivangKamion: hehe
05:34johnlevinAnother question is with geopolitics - with Ireland, Wales (and Welsh) and Scotland
05:34KeybukKamion: not just because Debian has a slight history of favouring GB spellings anyway
=== Riddell obsesses
05:34sabdflen_GB@leeds is more entertaining ;-)
05:34johnlevinperhaps an England-CC rather than UK or GB?
05:34makoyou can have a uk/gb team and someone wants to start a welsh team, that can happen too :)
05:34Kamion(cy_GB)
05:34Riddelljohnlevin: which is why with KDE I went with a geographical GB not a political UK
05:34sabdflas a souf efrikan i'm not sure of the politics of the uk
05:34jiyuu0mako, are there procedures to sign up as the country team? what is expected for country team to do?
05:35makojiyuu0: i think hikesh has actually gone over much of this but there are pages on the wiki
05:35makojiyuu0: i guess you must have not been cc'ed on thos emails
05:35KamionI'd tend to pick UK and let Northern Irish people work out for themselves where they want to be; we're used to doing that anyway
05:35Kamionissues with UK government are still relevant to people in NI
05:35Keybuk#include <inappropriate reference to terrorism>
=== jiyuu0 checkin wiki
05:36sabdflif we get a good team lead, those sorts of issues shouldn't be too much of a problem
05:36sabdfla country lead might well be responsible for several sub-projects, different languages etc
05:36sabdflfor example, if we had a spanish country lead he would need to be friendly to catalan etc, and probably work across several derivative projects
05:37makobut i don't that would necessarily preclude a catalan team either
05:37sabdflso a lot of this is up to the character of the team leader
05:37sabdflmako: agreed
05:37makooverlapping teams is OK if it's something people have considered and feel is worth going ahead with
05:37sabdflbut in the absence of such a person, we definitely want country team leads that are open minded and easy to get on (with), and not overtly political
05:37silbson the "what do country teams do" question, advocacy is a big part.  teams can help out with having an ubuntu presence at conferences and other events, also helping to coordinate local press coverage, we would like to encourage teams to be creative in terms of advocacy events/programs,
05:38sabdflthey can also work with local magazines
05:38mdzyes, conferences definitely
05:38makojust so people know.. i get people emailing at info@* a lot asking about getting involved what i will often do is (a) email smurf it's in a country we have no team or (b) email the country team lead
05:38sabdflfor example if they contact magazines and newspapers, we can provide a good backup for them with access to team leaders for interviews, or cd's for magazine covers etc
05:38johnlevinHere's another UK problem - given that Canonical is based in the UK, there would be overlap between the CC and the Company.
05:38smurfixgood point, I'll add that to CountryTeams
05:39sabdflno prob
05:39makojohnlevin: you're not suggesting the Isle of Man team are you?
05:39Kamionjohnlevin: there are only about half a dozen of us actually in the UK though
=== mako nominates Vic Ferns fo the Isle of Man team
05:39mdzthat, and Canonical isn't based in the UK
05:39Kamion(or something, I forget the current number)
05:39silbsthere is also a difference between Canonical advocacy and community advocacy. In many ways the latter is more powerful
05:39sabdfli'd really like a good local team
05:40sabdfljohn, are you interested in leading it?
05:40johnlevinGood - gives the gb CC something to do.
05:40Kamiona local team would relieve Canonical people in the UK of the task of doing this sort of thing :)
05:40sabdfldrinking?
05:40mdzexactly
05:40johnlevinsabdfl: yes, but not until February.
05:40mdzsabdfl: nono, obtaining beer
05:40Kamionsabdfl: how do you feel about coordination with people like the campaign for digital rights in the uk?
05:40sabdflgood stuff
05:41sabdflalso patent issues
05:41sabdflcrypto issues
05:41Kamionthey're not quite on-topic, but share a number of interests
05:41jiyuu0how to get listed on the wiki as a MalaysiaTeam?
05:41sabdflwe're likely to have people on board who understand these things well and can help communicate
05:41Kamion(plus one of the CDR cabal's my best mate and lives down the road from me)
05:41makoi think opposition to software patents is quite uncontorverisial in the free software world
05:42smurfixjiyuu0: => CountryTeamHowto in the Wiki, it's all there
05:42jiyuu0we can have ubuntu on press... shouldn't be prob
=== jiyuu0 checkin
05:42smurfix(... and I'm not typing that information for the umpteenth time ...)
05:42makojiyuu0: coordinate with smurfix + do the wiki. it appears you've just  done the frst bit
05:42johnlevinThere's certainly a lot of digital rights campaigns / organisations in the UK
05:42mdzdidn't we decide that we shouldn't call the country teams "country teams" for geopolitical reasons?
05:42sabdfltrue
05:42Kamiongar, all the other words are so awkward
05:43Kamionregional teams is about the least bad
05:43ogra_geo team ?
05:43sivangLOcal COmmunity Teams?
=== mako would adovcate making teh change if possible
05:43makosivang: local teams is good
05:43makoand now is the time to do it
05:43sabdflLoCo?
05:43ogra_hehe
05:43sivangsabdfl: hehe
05:43elmooh god, not country teams, then we'll have the Taiwan thing all over again
05:43sivangwe are ubuntu LoCo's :)
05:43makoelmo: the taiwan ____ team is on it's way too
05:44sivangsabdfl: LoCo sounds a nice acronym to me, also it's a spanish word :)
05:44smurfixWell,  I kindof like the term as it is, but OK ;-)
05:44sabdfl"neo, this is loco"...
05:44sivanghehehe
05:44mdzloco about ubuntu
05:44sabdflok done
05:44sivangmdz: exactly
05:44johnlevinDo the LoCo motion
05:44smurfixjohnlevin: OUCH
05:44sabdflaarrrggh....
05:44sivangjohnlevin: ah kylie...:)
05:44makosabdfl: your joke just became LAW
05:45sivangwas bendy coming out like this? ;-)
05:45mdzjust say no to bendy
05:45sivangheheheheh
05:45makomost ubuntu names start as jokes
05:45sabdflerm.. .that was keybuk's troll that I took on
05:45mdzyeah, and I owe him one for it
05:45mdz(and not the good kind)
05:45sivangand Malone, is a tribute, to Bugsy Malone right?
05:45sabdflplan on sending monica to birmingham?
05:46makomalone is the exception
05:46fabbioneor Robert Malone? ;)
05:46sabdfloff topic, let's get back
05:46smurfixOK, who'll do a global Country => Loco replacement in the Wiki?
05:46mdzsabdfl: with a knife in her teeth
=== mako grins
05:46makosmurfix: rename the pages.. put place holders where the old pages were
05:46mdzsmurfix: sounds like  your domain ;-)
=== smurfix can do it
05:46sabdflso agreed, a uk/gb country team would be great
=== mako nods
05:46makoi'm all for it
05:46sabdfljohnlevin: would you discuss taking it on post-feb with smurfix?
05:47sabdflmdz: as long as the knife doesn't end up in my back, i'm happy ;-)
05:47Kamionsivang: bugsy
05:47makocan we move on
05:47mako?
05:47sabdflMOU
05:47sabdflMasters Of The Universe
05:47makomdz: MASTERS OF THE UNIVERSE
05:48mdzyes
05:48Mithrandirwe really need a free master of the universe clone.  It was such a fun game.
05:48sabdflelmo: do we have the ability to allow people to upload to universe only?
05:48elmosabdfl: no, but it's a days work
05:48mdzso, we have solid consensus that we should have a universe maintainer team
05:48elmotops
=== jiyuu0 will create the wiki page... but first time to crash
05:48KeybukMithrandir: no, we really need a team to think of names that don't start as jokes! :p
05:48mdzand I'd love to send out an announcement inviting people to join
05:49makojiyuu0: thanks for coming jiyuu0!
05:49elmodo we need that first?
05:49sivangKeybuk: hehe
05:49sabdflthen we appoint a core team of MOTU, who can approve new maintainers for universe
05:49mdzbut I need a process to tell them about
05:49sabdflwithout reference to the CC
05:49jiyuu0night all :)
05:49jiyuu0will be back
05:49sabdflnight jiyuu0
05:49mdz"talk to this person" (or "these people")
05:49sivangnight jiyuu0
05:49sabdflmdz, mako, we can tie the MOTU stuff into the Mataro membership roadmap in time
05:50MithrandirI think we need a process for appointing universe maintainers as well -- we don't want universe to decline in quality -- we want it to become better.
05:50elmoand what about freeze rules and the like - do they apply to the MOTU?
=== haggai [~halls@i-83-67-20-196.freedom2surf.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
05:50sabdflKeybuk: *your* jokes in particular?
05:50mdzother Ubuntu teams have leaders, and I think MOTU should too
05:50sabdflelmo: yes
=== johnlevin_ [~johnlevin@dsl-80-42-106-115.access.uk.tiscali.com] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
05:50makosabdfl: yes
05:50mdzhaggai: thanks for coming
05:50Keybuksabdfl: Masters Of The Universe was yours/mdz ... I'm *not* taking responsibility for it
05:50johnlevin_sorry - connection dropped
05:50sabdfli had two potential leaders in mind, chris halls (haggai) and christoph haas, because of his mentoring background
=== mako be very happy with both of them
05:51mdzI emailed christoph haas, but admittedly not very far in advance, about coming to the meeting
05:51mdzI wasn't able to reach him in time
05:51sabdflKeybuk: that was my disaster
05:51sivangmdz: I think he woudl lvoe
05:51makoone cocern i have is that we have someone involved with close ties to debian
05:51sivangmdz: that
05:51makobecause it's going to involve coordination with debian quite a bit
05:52Kamionboth chris and christoph qualify there, I think
05:52mdzI think it goes without saying that this person should not be a Canonical employee
05:52makoboth chris and christoph have that i think
05:52makoKamion: right
05:52sivangKamion: agreed
05:52fabbioneKamion +1
05:52sabdflso let's start with them
05:53fabbioneperhaps they could easily share the load...
05:53Kamion+1
05:53mdzperhaps we should ask them if they want the job? ;-)
05:53sabdflhaggai: how do you feel about this?
05:53makoyes, this is not a one person job.. universe is "sorta big"
=== haggai trying to work out what is involves
05:53sabdflit will take 5 or 6 core people just to keep track of maintainers i imagine
05:54sabdflhaggai: basically lead universe
05:54mdzhaggai: organizing a group of people to maintain universe, essentially
05:54sabdfl - approve uploaders (maintainers)
05:54sabdfl - when in freeze, perhaps approve uploads
05:54sabdflthat's it for the moment i think, but it's potentially a lot of work
05:55Kamionhaggai: there are changes in main that require sweeping changes in universe, sometimes
05:55haggaiyes, seems to be quite a bit of work
05:55Kamionlike the python2.4 transition
05:55mdzand the libflac transition
05:55mdzboth of which are incomplete in universe at this moment
05:55mdzalso merges in universe
05:55sabdflperhaps we should try to gather a larger team to take this on
05:55sabdflit might be daunting for two people :-)
05:55makosabdfl: seems sane
05:55haggaiyes, I don't think I have the time to take on that sort of load
05:56KamionI think it could easily be the job of haggai/chrish (if they accepted) to put together a team of people big enough to take this on
05:56haggaiOOo and Kubuntu ..and universe? shudder
05:56KamionI don't think they should be trying to do the whole job themselves; it's at least full-time for two people
05:56sivanghaggai: ouch
05:56mdzhaggai: there will be a lot of overlap between Kubuntu and universe, I imagine
05:56mdzKamion: agreed
05:56mdzbut we desperately need a starting point
05:56mdzso far we have nothing
05:56sabdfli agree with mdz that it would be best if the leader was not a canonical employee, but it might be difficult to get someone to take on the task without some compensation for the time
05:57sabdflhaggai: it doesn't require getting the WHOLE of universe right
05:57sabdfljust appointing people who care about pieces of it, and getting THOSE right
05:57azeemthe community will expect this, though
05:57sabdflKubuntu is a big chunk of it
05:57haggaisabdfl: yes, understood
05:58Mithrandirhow about some bounty or compensation for handling it -- can be difficult to measure success, though.
05:58mdzhaggai: the assumption is that there is a wealth of labour available in the community which needs primarily to be organized and enabled
05:58makoazeem: you want in?
=== mako smells fresh blood
05:58azeemhell no
05:58sabdflMithrandir: i don't mind offering some basic compensation for a few hours per day for someone who is reliable and consistently present, and well trusted by the community
05:58azeemthis is a suicide mission :)
05:59haggaiazeem: heh :)
05:59johnlevin_Just checked log - confirm I'll discuss LoCo GB with Smurfix in Feb
05:59sabdfleven if it is a flight to some distant exotic location :-)
05:59sabdfljohnlevin_: cool thanks
05:59sivangsabdfl: hehe
05:59Mithrandirsabdfl: it would need to be fairly transparent that we are doing it, but I guess that wouldn't be a problem.
05:59fabbionesabdfl: does that include space? ;)
06:00sabdflits mainly just having a fast process for approving unproven maintainers and unleashing them on universe
06:00sabdflfabbione: damn, that was a good call ;-)
06:00ogra_fabbione: moon ?
06:00sabdflMithrandir: agreed
06:00fabbioneehhe
06:01makoit's a little unclear where we have ended up
06:01makoto me
06:01makoi.e., the person writing the summary
06:01mdzmako: summary: mdz says "HELP"
06:02sabdflmdz: have you had a wealth of labour asking to be organised?
06:02azeem'approving unproven maintainers and unleashing them on universe' sounds like people will jump to do things differently than Debian, which will result in even more differences
06:02sivangwe should haev a small start maybe, approve a small  set of pkgs for MOTU NMs  most demanded by the community and see how it develops...
06:02makoalright.. so we we need to keep thinking about this and finding a group of leaders
06:02haggaiI'd like to think this over a little; in principle I'm willing to do it
06:02makohaggai: that's fair
06:03makohaggai: it's a little unfair to have the group jump you in irc and demand some soret of decision right away
06:03mako:)
06:03mdzsabdfl: perhaps not a wealth so far, but certainly enough that I am confident there are many more who have not stepped forward for lack of clear direction
06:03haggaimako: :)
06:03makoazeem: which is why i said i wanted the leads to have strong debian connections
06:03haggaiI certainly have had quite a few people mailing me re Kubuntu, so I guess there's likely to be even more wrt universe in general
06:03sabdflok, elmo, could you invest that day and get us the ability to approve someone as an uploader to universe / multiverse?
06:04makoazeem: to coordinate with debian/upstream, minimize unnecessry deltas, let them know How We Do Things
06:04johnlevin_Got to go; catch you all later.
06:04sabdflcheers johnlevin_
06:04elmosabdfl: will do tomorrow then
06:04sabdflgreat
=== thom [~thom@amnesiac.heapspace.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
06:04mdzhaggai: any Kubuntu guys that seem reasonably sane to you should be able to upload to universe, as far as I'm concerned
06:04makothom: master of masters of the universe? (anyone who joins this channel is vulnerable)
06:04sabdflthen mdz, kamion, everyone, let's just approve any known sane people who ask
06:05haggaimdz: ok, Jonathan Riddell falls into that category
06:05sabdfldone
06:05mdzsabdfl: so what do i write in the announcement email?
06:05mdzsabdfl: show up to the next community council meeting?
=== sivang notes for a record fast approval process. :-)
06:05makomdz: sure, run it by me
06:05amumdz: probably cardman
06:05thommako: hell no
06:05makomdz: draft it on the wiki and i'll hack on it a bit too
06:06mdzthat means another 2 weeks of zero progress
06:06mdzand that's too long
06:06sivangmdz: someone can sponser downloads in the meantime maybe
06:06makothom: 17:58 < azeem> hell no
06:06sabdflno, people can approach MOTU (haggai, chrish, anyone else we appoint to that) or any TB or CC member and be approved immediately
06:06mdzsivang: no, I don't want this to be associated with similar (arduous) processes in Debian
06:07sabdflif that person has reservations, we would refer to MOTU
06:07sivangmdz: ok, very good point
06:07sabdflor TB / CC
06:07mdzelmo: can I get a mail alias set up which points to that group of people?
06:07makoelmo, mdz: add me to that list
06:07mdzmako: you're a CC member
06:07sabdfllet's think a little about mechanics
06:07elmowhich group of people?
06:07mdzelmo: <sabdfl> no, people can approach MOTU (haggai, chrish, anyone else we appoint to that) or any TB or CC member and be approved immediately
06:07sabdflelmo, we have a non-chinstrap upload place right?
06:07makomdz: so *that's* what i'm doing here
06:07mako:)
06:07Kamionsabdfl: upload.ubuntu.com
06:07elmohave haggai and chrish even agreed to this? :)
06:08elmosabdfl: yes, what kamion said
06:08sabdflcool
06:08makoelmo: they've agreed to think about it :)
06:08elmowe still need keyring handling to be done by me
06:08sabdflnow what happens if a universe uploader uploads an ubuntu version of a package
06:08sabdflthen a new one gets uploaded to sid
06:08mdzsabdfl: merge-o-matic should file a bug in the universe bugzilla
06:08Kamionwe don't have to worry about that until we're out of UVF, do we?
06:08sabdflwill merge-o-matic help?
06:09mdzsabdfl: unless we're in freeze
06:09sabdflUVF?
06:09Kamionsince we're not automerging main, we shouldn't be automerging universe
06:09haggaisabdfl: once there's an .ubuntu there is no automatic merge
06:09Kamionupstream version freeze
06:09mvo_upstream-version-freeze
06:09Kamionhaggai: for main, we get automatic merge attempts filed as bugs for us
06:09mdzbut not anymore for Hoary
06:10haggaiyes, I assume we're talking about post hoary
06:10sabdflautomerging switched off now?
06:10Kamion'bout a week ago
06:10sabdflok
06:10sabdflso the bugs are heads-up rather than notifications that it happened
06:10mdzsabdfl: we still generate the output in case we need it, but don't file bugs
06:11mdzin fact, tomorrow is the deadline to close all the bugs
06:11sabdflis the merge-o-matic output available to non-chinstrap uploaders-to-universe?
06:11elmomerge-o-matic  is on rookery, i.e. available to the world
06:11mdzsabdfl: absolutely; it's on people.u.c
06:11Keybuksabdfl: sure, it's on people.ubuntu.com
06:11sabdflcool
06:11sabdflWE ROCK
06:11sabdflahem
06:11KamionI think we're pretty non-chinstrapped now
06:11Treenaksuh.. hmm.. I'm late
06:11sabdflgreat
=== mako seconds the WE ROCK motion
06:12sabdflhiya Treenaks
06:12fabbionecya Treenaks
=== mako nods to Treenaks
06:12Keybukhttp://people.ubuntu.com/~scott/ongoing-merge/  for the merged sources, http://people.ubuntu.com/~scott/patches/  for the incorrectly classified "current patches"
06:12sabdflTreenaks: could you check scrollback?
06:12ogra_hi Treenaks
06:12KeybukI think haggai noted both in his docs
06:12mdzKamion: except for canonical.com baz archives
06:12Treenakssabdfl: I'm reading
06:12Kamionyep
06:12makoso.. a few more things on the agenda
06:13makocan i push us forward a bit?
06:13elmomdz: feature for most of the stuff on there
06:13Kamionthe only times I've used chinstrap recently are (a) cdimage stuff, logging into little, (b) canonical.com baz archives, (c) proofreading pitti's security announcements before they go out
06:13Kamionmako: please do
06:13sabdflgreat
06:13makomdz: the next one is yours as well
06:13makomdz: content filtering
06:13mdzmako: that is not mine
06:13mdzthat is John Moser
06:13makomdz: i have no idea what you're talking about here
06:13Kamionthat was bluefoxicy's
06:13mdzwho didn't show
06:13sivangis he here?
06:13makomdz: sorry...
06:13makoi still have no idea what he's talking about
06:14makoi'll ping him
06:14makoand lets move on.. if he shows up, we can handle it then
06:14KamionI've pinged him on #ubuntu
06:14Kamionyep
06:14mdzmako: he posted to ubuntu-devel on the same subject
=== spacey [~spacey@flits101-191.flits.rug.nl] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
06:14makook. so the next one *is* your mdz
=== OddAbe19 [~OddAbe19@pcp02542642pcs.lncstr01.pa.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
06:14mdzhttp://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2005-January/002856.html
06:14mako"Getting porting/architecture teams operational"
06:14mdzok
06:14mdzwe've said that we want to have teams for the architecture ports
06:15mdzespecially the non-mainstream ones like ia64
06:15mdzI'd like for those to actually exist
06:15makoi'm in support of that
06:15makoin fact, i thought we'd already done it
06:15sabdflthe difficult one being ia64 right now?
06:15mdzcurrently we have an amd64 team led by Mithrandir
06:15Kamionthat would kind of imply non-Canonical people being active in those ports ...
06:15fabbionedidn't the ia64 team kinda vanished?
06:15elmowjat's involved in having a team for them?
06:15mdzand an ia64 team which is sort of vapour
06:15makoalthough i know ther ewas some fallout around ia64
06:16makoright.. at least one of the more active folks early on has been called away to other things
06:16makolamont, you were interested in amd64, no?
06:16mdzfirst T-bone said he would do it, then he had other obligations, then T Simonnet said he would, but I've been unable to even reach him
=== bluefoxicy [~bluefox@pcp485126pcs.whtmrs01.md.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
06:16bluefoxicyI did what now?
06:16Kamion Discuss potential applications of content filtering and ContentControl
06:16mdzbluefoxicy: you proposed an agenda item for the community council meeting (which is what this is)
06:16lamontmako: more ia64 than amd64
06:16sabdflbluefoxicy: content filtering, we'll get to it in a sec
06:17makobluefoxicy: get ready to talk about "Discuss potential applications of content filtering and ContentControl" but not yet
06:17sabdflmdz: if you don't think ia64 is doable for hoary, you can kill it
06:17bluefoxicyoh ok
=== bluefoxicy just w oke up and saw his name.
06:17mdzsabdfl: currently, no one cares about it enough to actually do work except lamont
06:17makowe can put out a call for ia64 work on -news with the summayr of this meeting
06:17mdzsabdfl: and we need lamont for other things
06:17sabdfli hate to kill a port after spending a small car on port buildd's :-)
06:18smurfixsabdfl: trade them in for a small car then ;-)
06:18sabdflbut we were clear that we wanted community teams to lead, and we would provide the infrastructure
=== Method [~Method@Method.developer.gentoo] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
06:18makowell, i suspect it will be resurrected
06:18Kamionthere's kill and there's postpone ...
06:18mdzoh hey, I got a response from T Simonnet
=== lamont has been trying to drum up interest in the hp croud, but not very aggressively
06:18mdzhe has a small army of students that he says he can put to work
06:19makomdz: is T Simonnet in a place to at least coordinate a bit?
06:19fabbionesounds good :-)
06:19sabdflok, maybe i should call him?
06:19mdzbut it sounds like they don't know much about how to get things working
06:19mdzthey have hardware already
06:19lamontthey have better hardware than the dc
06:19mdzthey tried to install a random hoary ISO, which of course didn't work because they hadn't fixed the installer yet, and they filed a bug saying it didn't work
06:19sabdfli suspect he's a varsity guy with a heavy load already and not able to do much bug triage, that's what we mostly need
06:19mdzwe need people to actually fix things
06:19elmolamont: that's not hard
06:20lamontelmo: exactly.  step 1) get HP to donate it.
06:20elmoia64 already costs $$$ without buying the good stuff
06:20lamontyeah
06:20mdza bunch of people filing bugs about how ia64 works is a step in the wrong direction ;-)
06:20mdzs/works/doesn't work/
06:20makomdz: i can try to get you some more bodies to hack on this
=== Treenaks has read up on scrollback
06:20mdzI think someone should talk to T Simonnet
06:20sabdfli'm happy to call him
06:20lamontwhat we need most right now is someone with time and hardware to figure out what's wrong with anna in d-i
06:20mdzabout what this role means and find out whether he is able and willing to fill it
06:20Kamionthe installer bug in question is actually fairly hard to fix, in fairness; I've poked at it a little but didn't get very far
06:21mdzsabdfl: you were CCed on the email; I don't have a phone number but can ask
06:21lamontmdz++
06:21sabdfli think we need someone of Mithrandir's capability to lead it
=== Mithrandir blushes
06:21makosabdfl: ask him if he's willing ot coordinate.. if he is, let me know and i will put out a call for help and we coordinate around him or whoever else
06:21sabdflif we don't have a good lead, it's not going to be ready for hoary
=== lamont has specifically been trying to take a hands-off approach to his ia64-driving efforts
06:22elmoKamion: is it really ubuntu specific ?
06:22sabdfli expect his students will be able to fix a lot of small bugs, but not lead hard stuff
06:22mdzI've emailed him proposing a phone call
=== murf [~murf@193.165.214.35] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
06:22Treenaksre: the advocacy thing.. a month ago I ordered 200 more CDs.. haven't been sent yet, is this known?
06:22Kamionelmo: seems to me, Debian hasn't had any similar reports that I know of
06:22lamontelmo: it winds up using a package name as a pointer...
06:22fabbioneelmo: doesn't joeyh install automatically on ia64?
06:22Kamion"seems to be"
06:22Kamionyes, he does
06:22makoTreenaks: talk to me aftewards. they should ahve been
06:22mdzis there anyone who would be interested in leading the powerpc team?
06:22Treenaksmako: ok
=== murf [~murf@193.165.214.35] has left #ubuntu-meeting []
06:22sabdflthat can certainly be a canonical person
06:22makoTreenaks: all cds ordered more than 2 weeks ago have been sent
06:23sivangmako: mine's also lost/delayed etc :)
06:23Kamionmm, I'm interested in taking part in powerpc obviously, not sure about leading
06:23elmoditto
06:23makosivang: we've already talked about that but this is not really the place to have this discussion :)
06:23sivangmako: k, sorry
06:23mdzpitti?
06:23sabdfloverload...
06:23pittimdz: here
06:23Kamionbut I'm already doing the powerpc work that impinges on stuff I do without the need for a team blessing :)
06:23mdzpitti: you care about powerpc, yes?
06:24pittimdz: yes :-)
06:24elmoyeah, 'cos pitti's short of stuff to do :p
06:24Kamionit would be nice to have somebody involved who cared enough to get the non-newworld-powermac subarches going sanely
06:24Kamionpreferably in a not-totally-crackful way
06:24mdzI don't think there's a huge amount of work for the team leader to do at this point
06:24pittiin fact I was hacking, so I got a bit dragged away from the discussion, sorry
06:24mdzbut I think it's important that the team exist and have a point of contact
06:24Kamionmdz: oh, there's lots of powerpc stuff to do ...
06:24fabbioneKamion: what about involving benh?
06:24mdzso that people in the community who are interested in it have a place to go
06:24sabdfldoes the team lead need to have a huge amount of d-i experience?
06:24sabdflor is it mostly "get it to build"
06:25pittimdz: I can be the contact, but I don't have an oldworld
06:25sabdflbenh?
06:25mdzpitti: we don't even support oldworld, do we?
06:25Kamionsabdfl: don't think so, it's more being familiar with the variety of machines that exist
06:25pittiif we could get benh, this would be great
06:25fabbionesabdfl: he is a ppc kernel guy
06:25pittimdz: AFAIK they don't even boot now
06:25Kamionmdz: no, but imho we should, we get a fair few requests for it
06:25Kamionand people have made Ubuntu boot on them
06:25elmooh!
06:25Kamionthere's a howto on the wiki
06:25elmoI know what the powerpc team could do, is get ppc64 going
06:25mdzKamion: exactly the sort of thing to be delegated to the team lead ;-)
06:25Kamionmm, yes
06:25sabdfli'm happy to offer a bounty for the subarches kamion is concerned about to benh
06:26mdzand ppc64, for that matter
06:26Kamionbenh is a kernel hacker, from his point of view he's already done the work he needs to do on those sorts of machines
=== lamont claims hppa point-of-contact. :)
06:26Kamionwhere benh would be good would be for ppc64 knowledge
=== fabbione claims sparc64 :-)
06:26Kamionhe knows a lot about the kernel/toolchain level of that
06:26sabdfla kernel guy is likely to have a great understanding of arch issues
06:26fabbioneKamion: well i guess on a bounty base he can revive his interest ;)
=== smurfix will NOT claim m68k. ;-)
06:26pittimdz: I would not mind if powerpc@ubuntu.com is an alias to me, but I think I won't have much time to actually hack on this stuff, at least not right now
06:27Kamionbenh did write yaboot, of course
06:27sabdflpitti: agreed, i think you have a full load, you are doing very well at that
06:27Kamionbut benh is employed by IBM; I'm not sure you'll lure him away
06:27sabdflwhere's benh work?
06:27sabdflbounty, not job <yet>
06:27fabbionesabdfl: france iirc
06:27sabdflaaarrgghhhh.....
06:27mdzhehehe
06:28sivangLOLs
06:28mdzworst possible answer
=== Mithrandir chuckles
06:28fabbioneain
06:28ogra_he
06:28sabdflbounty then
06:28fabbioneain't MY fault this time!
06:28fabbioneblame GTK!
=== smurfix seems to miss a it of history here
06:28smurfixs/it/bit/
=== Kamion wonders about somebody like Colin Leroy
06:28bluefoxicy<Weird al> ou ju di jure de eifle toweur!  . . . FRENCH TOAST!!!
06:28MithrandirKamion: wanting to increase the amount of Colins we have? :)
06:28sabdflfabbione: could you ping benh, ask him if he's interested?
06:28elmosmurfix: france's contracting laws were designed by the maquis de sade
06:28Kamion(did the fan support for newer powermacs, debian-powerpc regular)
06:28mdzthe work for ppc64 is basically to build and test a ppc64 kernel package, no?
06:28sabdflvolunteer or bounty basis, so as not to conflict with ibm commitments?
06:29fabbionesabdfl: he is in holidays thiese days but i will as soon as he is back
06:29makoelmo: heh
06:29thombenh is in canberra
06:29Kamionmdz: and resolve any userspace issues that come up
06:29bluefoxicywhat are we discussing right now, I"m seeing france and things about where people are vacationing
06:29Kamionmdz: and figure out what the hell to do about the installer
06:29Treenaksthom: we could make bob2 stalk him!
06:29bluefoxicyand stalking
06:29thomi'm sure he does anyway
06:29Kamionbluefoxicy: we're talking about porting teams, which is on the agenda
06:29Kamionbluefoxicy: context is everything
06:29bluefoxicyah, that explains the talk about all the other countries :)
06:29sabdflfurther, it may be a good way to initiate a relationship with IBM
=== bluefoxicy just woke up
06:30sabdflPower5 is going to be a big deal
06:30Mithrandirsabdfl: at least as long as they don't think we're just grabbing him and running off.
06:30sabdflhe's FRENCH
06:30sabdflok, mdz, i'll talk with t simonnet
06:30mdzhe's either in france or in australia
06:30makosabdfl: is the implication that they will be happy we're taking him then?
06:30thomhe's in australia
06:30fabbionesabdfl: i will put you two in contanc if that's fit your idea
06:30mdzsabdfl: ok, I'll open a dialogue with benh about ppc64
06:31thomworking at ozlabs in canberra
06:31sabdflok
06:31mdzfabbione: please send him to me
06:31fabbionemdz: ok fine with me
06:31sabdflin the absence of a strong lead for ia64 it's mdz's decision whether to lift the commitment that ia64 will ship with hoary
06:31fabbionemdz: he hangs often on #debian-kernel FYI
=== mako nods
06:31dilingerhe does
06:31mdzia64 will not ship with hoary unless there is someone standing behind it
06:31Kamionozlabs? that's paul mackerras' hangout too
06:32Kamion(another ppc64 guy)
=== mako nods
06:32sabdfldo you guys think i should be reconsidering my position and hiring a port lead for ia64, power5, ppc etc?
06:32thomKamion: yah
06:32mdzsabdfl: honestly I don't think that ia64 is very relevant at this point
06:32sabdflor should we stick with core3, plus community driven ports?
06:32mdzsabdfl: ppc64 much more so
06:32Mithrandirsabdfl: I think bountying them (like we did for amd64) could be useful.
06:32fabbionesabdfl: i don't think you should.
06:33makosabdfl: i still think it's worth trying to do this w/ the community.. amd64 seems to be working great
06:33makobut yeah, bountying in strategic places can be great
06:33Kamionpower5 is an enhancement to a current port rather than a new port, really
06:33Kamionalthough that's a fineish distinction
06:33sabdflmako: for amd64 we did have a leader's incentive though, perhaps we should consider the same for other arch's
06:33Kamionfrom our point of view it doesn't involve the same kind of huge buildd commitment
06:33elmogar
06:33makosabdfl: i think it's worth considering
06:33elmoI coudn't read "core3" without mentally adding fedore in front of it
06:34sabdflok, let's chat to benh and t simmonet
06:34sabdflnext?
06:34makobluefoxicy: you're on
06:34mdzfabbione: kernel team
06:34mdzoh, nm
06:34mdzthis item doesn't sound particularly like community council domain, but maybe I've misunderstood
06:34mdzI'd like to hear bluefoxicy's description
06:36mdzright, so
06:36mdzshall we queue that one again, and move on to the kernel team?
06:36bluefoxicyhi
=== bluefoxicy was writing e-mail
06:37bluefoxicyUh, there's things like dan's guardian that can do content filtering based on the content of pages et al.  This is useful in a number of situations if deployed well.
06:37fabbionesparc64?
06:37Treenakscontent filtering?
06:37bluefoxicy. . what are we on?  Content filtering or kernel?
06:37Treenaksgreat, netsplit
06:37fabbione(sorry i got lost in the netsplit)
06:37mdzwe just lost half the council
=== OddAbe19 [~OddAbe19@pcp02542642pcs.lncstr01.pa.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
=== haggai [~halls@i-83-67-20-196.freedom2surf.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
=== sivang [sivan@muse.19inch.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
=== Riddell [jr@muse.19inch.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
=== mako [mako@micha.hampshire.edu] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
=== Kamion [~cjwatson@host81-153-126-219.range81-153.btcentralplus.com] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
=== reformed [nobody@junkybox.pacific.net.au] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
06:38mdzbluefoxicy: you're up
06:38smurfixHmm... => skip^2 ?
=== thom [~thom@amnesiac.heapspace.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
06:38sabdflbluefoxicy: ?
06:38sabdflcan iptables redirect only traffic destined for apps running as a particular user?
06:38Treenaksok.. content filtering I think, still?
06:38sabdflhalllaaaoou?
06:38sabdfli think we've exhausted ourselves
06:38makoright yes
06:38crimsunyou're up (content filtering)
06:38crimsunthough...yeah, netsplit.
06:38Kamionmako: that was my reaction too, particularly given that nobody's responded to the ubuntu-devel post yet
06:38Kamiongah
06:38fabbioneWAIT GUYS
=== sabdfl [~mark@host217-37-231-28.in-addr.btopenworld.com] has left #ubuntu-meeting []
=== jiyuu0 [~jiyuu0@219.95.59.169] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
06:39fabbionewe are in the middle of the usual mess
=== sabdfl [~mark@host217-37-231-28.in-addr.btopenworld.com] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
06:39sabdflhello?
=== bluefoxicy [~bluefox@pcp485126pcs.whtmrs01.md.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
06:39Treenakssabdfl: hello
06:39ogra_hi :)
06:39fabbionesabdfl: it's a netsplit
06:39makosabdfl: hola
06:39fabbionekist wait
06:39sabdflah
06:39fabbionejust wait :-)
=== bluefoxicy [~bluefox@pcp485126pcs.whtmrs01.md.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
06:39fabbioneit will go back automatically
06:39mdzfabbione: it already did
06:39mdzeveryone is back
06:39bluefoxicyuh.  I got killed off and stuff, what are we on, and is the netsplit over
06:39fabbioneno it splitted again
06:39sabdflok, i lost sync a while back there
06:40fabbionesabdfl: everybody did ;)
06:40makoit was a bad split
06:40sabdflok
06:40crimsunsabdfl: yes, with the owner module and --uid-owner
06:40mdzbluefoxicy: we need to hear from you about content filtering
06:40bluefoxicyok
06:40Treenakscrimsun: but that's hideously slow, isn't it?
06:40makobluefoxicy: i think your proposal, especially the part about increasing the infrastructure, is great
06:40crimsunTreenaks: it certainly needs optimisation, yes :)
06:40bluefoxicymako:  thanks :)
06:40smurfixPlease re-do the kernel stuff later, half of us didn't get it.
06:40bluefoxicyanyway
06:41makothat said, i'm not convined there is a demonstrated need for the team
06:41bluefoxicyThe idea of content filtering is that you can heuristically scan