04:59	mako	Kamion: around?
04:59	Kamion	yes
=== elmo [~james@83-216-141-215.jamest298.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
=== pitti_ [~martin@box79162.elkhouse.de] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
05:02	mako	still waiting for sabdfl
05:02	mako	i've got a quick thing to add the agenda
05:03	sivang	hey mako
05:03	mako	agenda is http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/CommunityCouncilAgenda
05:04	mako	go ahead and add or propose new additions now if you want to cover something not on that list
05:04	mako	CC members should take a look over the people/wiki pages on that list if you have not already
05:04	mako	speed up the meeting once we get going
=== Mirv [~tajyrink@Mirv.active.supporter.pdpc] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
05:05	Kamion	I thought we dealt with the majority of those people earlier?
=== sabdfl [~mark@dumbledore.hbd.com] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
05:05	Kamion	oh, that was MOTU or something
05:05	sivang	mako: doing that at the moment
05:05	sabdfl	hi all
05:05	sivang	hey sabdfl
05:05	Mirv	sorry, in a middle of a crisis, I'm a bit late (I think)
05:05	sabdfl	apologies, crossed wires
05:06	zul	Kamion: dealt with me and tseng last week
05:06	sabdfl	did i miss the beginning, or should we begin?
05:06	Kamion	neither of you are on UbuntuMembers; who's responsible for updating that page?
05:07	mako	i just told people to look over the list
05:07	mako	of wikipages/new members
05:07	mako	and then asked for any extra items
05:07	mako	i'm addinging one myself now
05:07	sabdfl	isn't dholbach already a member?
05:08	Kamion	sabdfl: dholbach was fast-track-approved as MOTU
05:08	Kamion	(IIRC)
05:08	sabdfl	that covers membership too
05:08	mako	alright, i just added "reply-to revisisted"
05:08	sivang	Kamion: yeah, I think it was last meeting?
05:09	mako	smurfix_away: you around, i suspect from your name maybe not
05:09	Kamion	sabdfl: in that case everyone on that list except for Scott Ritchie is already done, if memory serves correctly
05:09	sivang	mako: pinged him couple of hours ago, didn't reply
05:09	sabdfl	yes, some of those folks didn't make it for main uploading is all iirc
=== mako nods
=== amu sponsored 2 packages from dholbach last week, they are ok
05:09	Kamion	and somebody *really* needs to update UbuntuMembers before we lose track completely :)
05:10	sabdfl	we have a spec for an automagix system
05:10	mako	Kamion: i have a list of everyone i've recieved signed cc's for
05:10	sabdfl	it will be done by hoary
05:10	sabdfl	it will track signed cc's
05:10	sivang	sabdfl: that's the "people" part of launchpad right?
05:10	Kamion	oh, dholbach was approved just today I think, haggai said he was happy
05:10	sabdfl	and membership
05:11	mako	can i suggest we start at the top of the agenda and go through
05:11	sabdfl	do we have the LoCo team leads around?
05:11	mako	even if it's to say that we're skipping something
05:11	mako	just for the logs, reporting, etc
05:12	sabdfl	ok mako
05:12	mako	that really was a question.. :)
05:12	sabdfl	lead off on reply-to
05:12	mako	ok..
05:12	mako	alright..
05:12	mako	so two weeks ago, we decided to switch reply-to for ubuntu-users
05:12	mako	for a trial period
05:13	mako	i wrote the message as we'd discussed and made the change
05:13	Kamion	it was only actually switched about a week ago, iirc?
05:13	mako	yeah.. i think last monday
05:13	mako	FWIW, i've recieved no negative feedback to -owner
05:13	sabdfl	ok, that's good news
05:14	mako	it's been less than two weeks..
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05:14	sabdfl	one week is too short to make it final though
05:14	mako	so if we want to revisit this again, we can
05:14	mako	but i suspect we won't hear more
05:14	sabdfl	how about we keep it till the end of the month, then decide?
05:14	Kamion	has anyone been individually CoC-warned or -banned, or are we saving that for the next flamewar?
05:14	mako	there seems to a be a number of people who don't really care a non-trivally small group of people who are happy
05:14	Mirv	sabdfl: I'm the one asking for Finnish team lead
05:14	sabdfl	next flamewar :-)
05:14	sabdfl	hi Mirv
05:14	mako	Kamion: i think we're saving that
05:15	mako	i mentioned in that message that we were upset about the way that things in terms of tone
05:15	sabdfl	do we send the CoC when people sign up to the list?
05:15	mako	and taht we would be enforcing the CoC in the future
05:15	sivang	sounds good
05:15	mako	sabdfl: that was mentioned in the last meeting but i don't think we've gone ahead and done it yet.. i'll mention it to jdub
05:15	sabdfl	ok
05:16	mako	i'm not sure if anyone has any comments
05:16	sabdfl	anybody unhappy with leaving it as-is till the end of Feb?
05:16	sabdfl	another two weeks?
05:16	Kamion	seems sensible
05:16	mako	i'm happy with that
05:16	sabdfl	ok, done
05:16	sabdfl	thanks mako
05:17	sabdfl	appreciate your steering the community wagon trail
05:17	mako	np ;)
05:17	sabdfl	do we have good feelers into the forums and lists if things get testy?
05:17	sabdfl	does stuff bubble onto -devel or sounder?
05:17	mako	i am working with a few people who are active in the forums for traffic stuff.. they may good candidates to sort of police them as well
05:18	mako	sounder, not yet
05:18	mako	devel, not often and it's stopped quicker
05:18	mako	even user is overwhelming only topic and civil
05:18	sabdfl	maybe the welcome message should also let people know to raise CoC issues with any CC member
05:19	mako	right, i get them too all but often not until after the fact for traffic later on some lists
05:19	sabdfl	don't want a police state, but also want people to know that they can raise an issue and we will take it seriously
05:19	sivang	we should probably refer people to CoC upon subscription maybe?
05:19	sivang	tell them to reach CC people when things get out of hand etc
05:19	sabdfl	mako, is there a canonical (!) CoC.txt? we need one for the ubuntite mgmt system
05:20	sivang	lol
05:20	mako	sabdfl: i have one that can be the canonical one
05:20	sabdfl	mako: could you commit it to rocketfuel, under lib/canonical/launchpad/templates/coc/ please?
05:20	Kamion	sivang: yes, that was what we were discussing
05:20	sabdfl	current.txt
05:20	mako	sabdfl: ok
05:21	sabdfl	also publish on the website till the launchpad stuff is done
05:21	sabdfl	cool
05:21	sivang	Kamion: ah ok, "mind the backlog" (tm) :)
05:21	sabdfl	i must say the community spirit is fantastic
05:21	sabdfl	we will need to defend that, growth makes it harder
05:21	sabdfl	it won't stay great unless we defend  the coc
05:21	sivang	I agree
05:22	mako	many of the recent reviews have had references to the community in the titles or otherwise very central
05:22	mako	can we move to loco teams?
05:22	mako	smurfix_away isn't here and he appoints those leaders...
05:23	sabdfl	ok
05:23	mako	so i'd say we put this aside unless he shows up.. he can report via email, etc
05:23	mako	unless anmyone has any reservations about either of those candidates they want to voice
05:23	Kamion	smurfix shouldn't have to do that at CC meetings, should he? it can be out of band
05:23	sabdfl	Mirv?
05:23	mako	which seems unlikely
05:24	sabdfl	Mirv is here
05:24	sivang	Kamion: IIRC this was also agreed upon last meeting, that he can approve new people without having to dedicate CC meetings for it.
05:24	fabbione	i never closed it
05:24	fabbione	ops
05:24	sabdfl	i'd still like new LoCo guys to swing through the CC, so we can chat a bit and find out if there are ways we can support them
05:25	sivang	hmm , right.
05:25	mako	sabdfl: yes, where timezones don't make that impossible.. either way they should swing bby
05:25	mako	and to let them know that we're interested in supporting them and that we value their hard work
05:25	mako	(a lot)
05:26	sabdfl	for example, i'm keen to know if there are linux magazines in finland, and how we could get ubuntu reviewed in them
05:26	sabdfl	whether they would be interested in interviewing some of the ubuntu rock stars (keybuk takes a bow :-)
05:26	sivang	hehe
05:26	sabdfl	how many languages there are in finland, which will need rosetta teams
05:27	sivang	sabdfl: rosetta teams == loco teams?
05:27	mako	sivang: not always
05:27	sabdfl	not necessarily, but the LoCo leader is likely to help setup the translation teams
05:27	mako	sivang: a nl loco team make sense. but there are multiple languages in nl
05:27	sabdfl	Mirv, if you are around, say hi so we can chat briefly
05:27	mako	sivang: or, for example, there are *80* languages in ethiopia
05:28	sivang	mako: man :)
05:28	amu	mako: wow
05:28	Mirv	sabdfl: yes, hi. I came from a trip 30 minutes ago, our hamster is killing itself but otherwise I'm here
=== mako raises his eyebrows at Mirv
05:29	sabdfl	gosh
05:29	sabdfl	that's the best entry to a cc meeting i've ever seen
05:29	sivang	heheh
05:29	Mirv	Linux is quite known in Finland naturally, because of Linus, but still all the magazines are only PC-centric and largely interested in MS stuff
05:29	mako	Mirv: i hope that works out for you.. and your hamster
05:29	sivang	sabdfl: he did that just to get famous :)
05:29	sabdfl	Mirv, where are you based?
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05:29	Mirv	mako: yeah, no prob, the hamster is now safe.
05:30	Mirv	sabdfl: I'm in northern Helsinki
05:30	sabdfl	are there multiple languages spoken in finland?
05:30	sabdfl	indigenous languages?
05:31	Mirv	sabdfl: yes, Finnish and Swedish are official languages because of historical reasons and that 6% of the people have Swedish as their primary language
05:31	Kamion	/usr/share/i18n/SUPPORTED lists fi_FI and sv_FI
05:31	sabdfl	Lap?
05:31	mako	http://www.ethnologue.com/show_country.asp?name=Finland
05:31	Mirv	in practise the bilinguality is limited to official stuff, and most Finnish people know English much better than Swedish
=== ogra reads the logs
05:33	sabdfl	wow, that's an awesome site
05:33	mako	sabdfl: it *really* is
05:33	Mirv	in addition to Finnish, Swedish, Lappish is recognized for the few people who speak it as their mother tongue
05:33	sivang	mako: btw, have you been contacted for arabic team leads?  I was trying to push some peopel to maybe voulnteer for that, and even has one linux new newbie as candidate, but he won't be available until he finishes his CS degree... , from my talks over #arabeyes --> "We'd better contrib to debina etc etc.."
05:33	sabdfl	Mirv: would it be interesting to people to have Ubuntu translated into Lappish?
05:33	ogra	sabdfl, Kamion: dholbach wasnt approved for upload last time, but he already has sponsored uploads in universe, it would be a big help for MOT if he could get approved
05:33	mako	sivang: i have been contacted by arabic speaking people.. but not by anybody who introduced themself as such
05:34	sivang	mako: when, you have names? (from .il ?)
05:34	sivang	mako: and good to know :)
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05:34	sabdfl	ogra: for universe, you plus one other can approve him
05:35	Mirv	sabdfl: it would be, but there are only about 6000-7000 of them in Finland. anyway, it'd be interesting to see if anything could be done to translate Linux/Ubuntu to Lappish.
05:35	ogra	sabdfl: i know.... but the other was missing last time ;)
05:35	mako	there are also several very different dialects apparently
05:35	sabdfl	any other TB / CC member comfortable enough with dholbach's work to second him on a fast-track?
05:36	sabdfl	ok
05:36	Mirv	yes, there are 10 different Lappish languages...
05:36	sivang	wow
05:36	sabdfl	Mirv, what are your plans for Ubuntu in Finland?
05:36	ogra	Kamion: did you find time to look over his coaster paqckages ?
05:37	Kamion	ogra: no, as it turns out, sorry :(
05:37	sabdfl	Kamion, could you ask one person on the distro team to review dholbach's work within 48 hours, and give a straight yes / no?
05:37	sabdfl	you or anyone you trust to advise you?
05:38	Kamion	I'll try lamont
05:38	ogra	sabdfl, Kamion: amu already sponsored uploads for him....
05:38	ogra	so he may know his work
05:38	sabdfl	amu isn't TB / CC / MOTU
05:38	mako	Mirv: your work and interest on the finish team (past, present and future) is appreciated :)
05:38	Kamion	I don't know amu as well
05:39	amu	sabdfl: nope, neighter offical on the distro team
05:39	ogra	sabdfl, but he could give a hint on the packages :)
05:39	sabdfl	sure
=== amu sponsored 2 packages from dholbach last week, they are ok
05:39	Kamion	(which is no offence to amu, just a transitive-trust thing :))
05:39	sabdfl	ok guys
05:39	sabdfl	can we wrap up? any other business?
05:39	mako	yes
05:40	mako	we had one person on the list of candidates who was not approved yet, correct?
05:40	amu	Kamion: hehe :)
05:40	sabdfl	i have another meeting starting
05:40	sabdfl	my apologies, i thought this was moved to 20h00 UTC, but that's next week's TB meeting
05:40	ogra	mako: which one...do we need sabdfl for that ?
05:40	sabdfl	mako, can you chair from here on?
05:40	mako	sabdfl: we can approve the rest w/o you
05:40	mako	sabdfl: yes, no problem
05:40	Treenaks	sabdfl: I wouldn't mind this meeting moving to 2000 UTC as well
05:40	Treenaks	next time
05:40	sabdfl	would like to hear a more detailed plan from mirv on ideas in finland
05:40	Mirv	basically I saw that some people had already joined #ubuntu-fi, but there was no "official" way Finnish Ubuntu users could reach each other. I'm hoping to correct this, and see if Finnish Ubuntu community could prosper
05:41	sabdfl	ok, cheers all
=== sabdfl [~mark@dumbledore.hbd.com] has left #ubuntu-meeting []
05:41	mako	can we go through the list of maintainers?
05:41	mako	ajmitch: you taken care of?
05:41	Mirv	I'd also like to see that any Ubuntu-specific packages are translated to Finnish
05:42	ogra	mako: was approved today
05:42	mako	we handled tseng last week, IIRC
05:42	ogra	yup
05:42	Treenaks	mako: ajmitch has been approved today, afaik
05:42	mako	dholbach is going to be taken care of today
05:42	mako	chuck short?
05:42	elmo	ajmitch has been done
05:42	zul	last week
05:42	ogra	zul was approved last week
=== mako giggles
05:42	mako	(i watched ghostbusters this weekend)
05:43	Mirv	well, I'll contact sabdfl anyway on these things at some point, because of the Lappish things etc.
05:43	zul	mako: yeah yeah
05:43	mako	Mirv: you can also work/discuss this diretly with other tb members of the rosetta people
05:43	mako	Mirv: which might be faster :)
05:43	mako	so scott richie
05:43	ogra	mako: YokoZar is awaiting package review first.....since he took a huge package as first one....(wine and friends)
05:43	mako	scott ritchie even
05:43	mako	ok, wow
05:43	Mirv	mako: tb=?
05:44	mako	ogra: so you're going to suggest waiting on that
05:44	Treenaks	Mirv: tech board
05:44	ogra	mako: haggai has it on his list....
05:44	ogra	mako: lets wait for his ok then
05:44	mako	Mirv: yeah, i mean cc instead of tb
05:44	mako	alright, sounds fair enough
05:44	mako	so that's the agenda
05:44	mako	is there any other business?
05:44	ogra	Mirv: tb=technical board
05:45	mako	going once...
05:45	mako	Kamion, elmo: other business?
05:45	elmo	not from me
05:46	mako	anyone else?
05:46	mako	next meeting...
05:47	mako	is 1600 really problematic for anyuone on the CC?
05:47	mako	otherwise, i'd be alright w/ sticking with it
05:47	sivang	i'm ok with it
05:47	elmo	I prefer it to the 2000 UTC of TB, certainly, FWIW
05:47	ogra	an hour later would be nioce for europe, but a pita for au i guess....
05:48	mako	alright then, lets keep it at 1600
05:48	mako	if for no other reason than half of the people will forget if we change it :)
05:48	mako	(including me)
05:48	mako	next meeting Feb 22, 1600UTC
05:49	mako	see you all then
05:49	Treenaks	OK
05:49	Treenaks	mako: not later?
05:49	Treenaks	(1600 is a really bad time here in CET :))
05:50	mako	Treenaks: elmo expressed a desire to not have it later and i'm hesitant to change slightly
05:51	elmo	well, I'm not trying to be awkard ,if there's a consensus it should be later, that's fine by me.  you just asked for opinion so I gave mine :)
05:51	mako	i like 1600 too
05:51	Treenaks	ok
05:51	mako	but i guess later is the same for me
05:52	Treenaks	1700 UTC would be better for me, or 1500 UTC.. 1600 is in the middle of my commute
05:52	mako	Treenaks: ahh, ok
05:53	mako	Treenaks: earlier becomes unmanigable for the west coast of the us
05:53	ogra	i guess this matches many europeans.....
05:53	sivang	mako: just make the announcement for he new time for the CC on the main apge of the website :)
05:53	Treenaks	mako: yeah, I can see that
05:53	mako	sivang: of course
05:53	sivang	(or I'll forget it also)
05:53	sivang	:)
05:53	mako	Treenaks: and later gets into the evening for folks in europe
05:53	mako	there is no way we keep everyone people happy :)
05:54	Kamion	no other business from me, sorry I was away for a few minutes
05:54	Treenaks	mako: 17:00 UTC is 18:00 CET, 19:00 for Finland, Greece, Israel (or 20:00 for Israel?) afaik
05:55	sivang	Treenaks: 19:00 for israel
05:55	sivang	(+2 hours
05:57	mako	Treenaks: fabbione is, i know, very against having the meeting any later because he does them from/for work and likes to keep a normal workday
05:58	mako	Treenaks: i think the only real solution is a rotating time
05:58	ogra	ahem....just reading the log...... wasnt reply to on the agenda ?
05:58	Treenaks	mako: that would be OK, I think
05:58	mako	ogra: first thing
05:58	ogra	mako: i cant find anything in the logs.... did you talk about it ?
05:59	mako	ogra:  we talked about and there has no negative feedback so far.. since it's been less than two weeks since the switch happened, w are going to bring it up again at the next meeting
06:00	ogra	mako: hmm, no negtive feedback, sure, but a guy who recived gmail invite answers acidently to the list ;)

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