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04:45TreenaksT-00:15:00
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04:57makoKamion: around?
04:57Kamionmako: yeah
04:57makook.. lets find elmo and sabdfl
04:57Kamionoh hell, CC meeting, I'd forgotten
04:58makobad time?
04:58Kamionno, that's ok
04:58Simirathe meeting's now, right?
04:58TheMuso_For some it is sorta. :)
04:58makoin a couple minutes
04:58makoTheMuso_: well, it's *always* a bad time for somebody
04:59makoanybody seen mark today?
=== elmo_ [~james@82.211.81.249] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
04:59TheMuso_I don't mind. At least I managed to get some sleep beforehand. :)
04:59makoshould i call?
04:59Kamionback in a few minutes, getting food
04:59makook.. if mark's not around when kamion returns, i'll give him a call
04:59elmo_he's in spain and running low on battery
04:59makohmm..
05:00makowell, might be good to take a look over the wiki pages for the new members
05:00elmo_err, his phone that is - not him personally ;)
05:00makoahh, ok :)
05:00makoi will sms
05:00Mithrandirsomebody could just ship him a crate if so. ;P
05:01sivangelmo_: mark is in spain? good for him :)
05:02SimiraI wouldn't mind be there myself right now... *freezing*
=== Mithrandir fetches Simira a blanket
05:02ajmitchmorning
05:02TheMuso_It is a really mild night here in Sydney, quite the opposite.
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05:02ograhmpf
=== ogra looks at the 40cm snow outside
05:03dholbachogra: how cold is it at your place in the mornings? still -8?
05:03Simiraogra: oh, you finally got the 30cm I send you?
=== dredg looks at the no snow outside
05:03ograheh
05:03ogradholbach: yup, about that
05:04Treenakssnow? what's that? :P
05:04dholbach*shudder* :-)
05:04Kamionback
05:05makoalright
05:05makoi have SMSed Mark but don't know if he will show up
05:05makoi think we should get started since there a number of things to cover
05:06makosmurfix: are you around?
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05:07makoalright
05:07makounless there are any problems i think we should start at the top of the list
05:07makoreply-to issue for ubuntu-users
05:08Treenakswhat's the issue, exactly?
05:08makoi'm not completely caught up with on-list traffic but have gotten no negative feedback to ubuntu-users-owner
05:08ograthere was no reaction at all i think
05:08makohttp://people.ubuntulinux.org/~mako/cc-summary-20050125.html
05:09Treenaksmako: no sudden dip in # of subscribers either?
05:09makoheh, no
05:09makoi mean, no negative reaction is better than before
05:09makowhen we had at least a minor flamewar fortnightly
=== Kamion nods
05:10makoi see no reason to change it from what we have
05:11makoit seems to be either (a) better or (b) the same in the eyes of most users
05:11makoso, barring any flood of negative reactions in the future which could prompt a reconsideration, i'm happy to just make it permenant
05:11makoif that sounds sane to others
05:11Treenakssounds OK
05:12makoelmo_, Kamion: ?
05:12sivang++
05:12TheMuso_Sounds fine. The users would be glad to hear that I am sure.
=== Mithrandir is unhappy with it, from a technical perspective, but I can work around it in my MUA.
05:12ograme too
05:12elmo_mako: ok
05:13makoMithrandir: i'm less than thrilled with it as well.. but i'm happy that i'm not getting followups to me personally that were supposed to be on the list anymoer :)
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05:13makoit's -users only after all
05:13makois there anything else anybody wants to add?
05:13SimiraI think it sound good.
05:14makootherwise, lets move on
05:14Kamionmako: ok
05:14KamionI echo what Mithrandir said, but I've said that before :)
05:15makosmurfix: when you appear you can comment on the loco team leaders
05:15makosmurfix: or it happen happen after the meeting
05:16makoif it's alright, i think we should handle the normal business before we do new members
05:16Treenaksgo ahead?
05:16makoogra: want to go ahead re the new motu?
05:16TheMuso_np.
05:17ograwe have had no second reviewer and since we can do it in the fast process yourselves, i would suggest to approve all of the as membrs now
05:18ograwe can do the MOTU stuff later then, if we got a new second reviewer
05:18Treenaksogra: hm?
05:18makoogra: and on the angeda, you suggested treenaks
05:18ograi'm pretty fresh myself in packaging, so i think its necessary to have someone experienced aside here....
05:18makoTreenaks: so, how do you feel about reviewing other people's debs
05:19makoyeah, that's my concern
05:19ograi know treenaks was DD for a while before ....
05:19makoit will be hard to replace haggai
05:19Treenaksmako: I'd like that :) I need to pick up packaging again anyway
05:20Treenaksand I've done some Debian maintaining in the past..
05:20ogramako: i really prefer working ooo2 packages ;)
05:20Treenaksogra: I'm not going to take over OOo2 packaging :P
05:20makoTreenaks: right.. but i'm worried about having someone with the ability to really vet packages and maintainers that are coming in on a technical level
05:20ograheh
05:21makoi'm asking if you think you're comfortable in your ability to do so or if you think we should trying to bring in someone else either in addition or in place
05:21Treenaksmako: well, I did pass the Debian P&P
05:22Kamionyou mean tasks and skills?
05:22TreenaksKamion: uh T&S, yes
05:22makoTreenaks: i'm worried more about tasks and skills
05:22makoand i see a difference between being comfortable in ability and skills and being able to successfully convince someone by answering questions :)
05:22Treenaksmako: I can imagine that :)
05:22makowhen i passed NM, i don't think i was a level where i'd want me to have this role alone :)
05:22Treenaksmako: uh, how do I convince people? :)
05:23makoTreenaks: i'm just asking you if You are comfortable
05:23Treenaksmako: I am
05:23elmo_Treenaks: big sticks usually help
05:23ogramako: the reviewing is mostly done in a group, so there are enough eyes to help ....
05:23TreenaksI've packages lots of stuff internally for my previous job
05:23makoalright.. :)
05:24makois there anyone else that is interested in taking on some responsiblities as part of the MOTU group?
05:24mako(packaging ninjas encouraged to apply)
05:24crimsunmako: we peer-review
05:24ogradholbach is our current packaging ninja ;)
05:24TheMuso_I guess so. The accessibility stuff for one.
05:24dholbachogra: thanks for the flowers :-)
05:25makoTheMuso_: this is more for vetting new universe maintainers than for working on any sub-part
05:25TheMuso_Righto.
05:25makocrimsun: ok. that's good
05:25ogradholbach: you do an awesome job.... so its deserved ;)
05:25Mithrandirmako: I guess full maintainers don't have to wave their hands?  I do amd64 stuff in both universe and main already.
05:26makoMithrandir: if you're volunteering to help approve new universe maintainers.. :)
05:26dholbachmako: i already did a heap of package reviews, although i'm not a DD or a packaging black belt ninja :-)
05:26dholbachmako: if you talk about that part of responsibilities :-)
05:26makoMithrandir: nobody is going to say no
05:26Mithrandirmako: I can approve anybody who wants to help out with amd64^W^W^W^W^W^W^W^Wnew subjects. :)
05:27ograheh
05:27Mithrandirmako: I would need to get more familiar with the process first.
05:27makoKamion, elmo_: any objections to treenaks?
05:27Mithrandirsince I've only followed our members/MOTU/* stuff cursory.
05:27makoKamion, elmo_: as a MOTU approver
05:28KamionTreenaks is fine, I think he's one of the names I suggested when ogra asked me about this
05:28makoperfect
05:29KamionI don't see why Mithrandir couldn't help out significantly too
05:29ograMithrandir: you dont need to know the process to review packages....
05:30makowell barring an objection from elmo, i think you're good to go Treenaks
05:30elmo_i'm fine with either treenaks and/or mithrandir
05:30ograits just judging the quality.... (a bit of a elmo clone )
05:30Treenaksmako: OK, thanks
05:30Mithrandirogra: if it's just package review, I can help out.
05:30Mithrandirogra: I'm harsh when it comes to quality, though. :)
05:30ogragreat !
05:31ogra:)
05:31ajmitchMithrandir: that's ok :)
05:31makoMithrandir: thanks, that's great
05:31makoalright then
05:31makoin terms of the website review/remake.. jdub is the one who can comment on that
05:31makoalthough i know there should be announcement Real Soon Now
05:31makounless he shows up, i'm not sure what more there is to say
05:32makowhich brings us to.. candidates for membership
05:32makothere are pages linked from the wiki
05:32hno73Well, anyone with wishes or ideas for the website can email henrik@canonical.com
05:32makoi went through and looked them over already but it's worth doing this
05:32makoas we
05:33makohno73: cool, are you handling this now?
05:33hno73mako: Yes, for better or worse :)
05:34hno73I'm sure once I start making drastic changes I'll get some feedback :)
05:34makohno73: i won't comment on which i suspect it is ;) thanks for handling it though!
=== mako has been doing part of that job recently.. certainly for worse ;)
05:35hno73Heh. I've been keeping busy with this site: http://www.theopencd.org/
05:36hno73Not as complex as the Ubuntu one though
05:36makoalright.. so lets start looking at new members
05:36makoscott ritchie
05:36makoogra: isn't scott around a universe maintainer and a member?
05:36ograhe is the guy that repackaged wine....
05:36makoright
05:36makoi don't have a signed CoC but..
05:36ograi havent seen any other packages yet...so only for member for now
=== mako nods
05:37makowell i've seen scotts work and i'm happy approving him
05:37makoelmo_, Kamion: ?
05:37elmo_no objections, don't enough to comment any more than that
05:40makoit would be good to get some confirmation from kamion
05:40KamionScott's the wine guy, I'm happy for universe at least
05:40makowell, this isn't for maintainershp, just for membership
05:40Kamionabsolutely
05:40makoany decision about universe stuff can be made by teh motu team
05:40makoawesome
05:40makolets move on
05:40makoscott ritchie = member
05:41ogranext is wasabi...
05:41makoJerry Haltom/wasabi
05:41ogra(jery haltom)
05:41makoi've seen wasabi around but am not too familiar with his contributions
05:41ograhe has already contributed packages....
05:41makoogra:
05:41elmo_mako: for what?
05:41jbaileyI've been working with him.
05:41jbailey(wasabi)
05:41makomembership.. just membership
05:41ograecj-bootstrap
05:41elmo_fine by me for membership
05:42makojbailey, ogra: you'll vouch for the contributions?
05:42ograyup
05:42makothen it's fine by me
05:42jbaileymako: Yup.
05:42makoKamion: wasabi? sound good?
05:42makonext is Mattias Eriksson
05:43makonick:snaggen
05:43Kamionwasabi++ for membership
05:43makosmall set of packages online here: http://www.acc.umu.se/~snaggen/ubuntu/
05:43ograhavent looked yet
05:43makowasabi = member
05:43ograbtw, who cares for the Members list
05:44ogra?
05:44makoi haven't looked at them either but have seen snaggen around
05:44Kamionsnaggen needs to give those packages an Ubuntu-specific version number or denote his changes somehow; they seem to be modified versions of somebody else's packages
05:44makoogra: i have a list of signed coc's.. it's not entirely complete
05:44crimsunogra: aren't we supposed to? ;)
05:44Kamionso it's hard to tell how much he's done
05:44Kamionespecially since it's natively packaged rather than .diff.gz
05:44makoogra: it doesn't have all the canonical people .. and i haven't gotten signed coc's from most of them
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=== mako nods
05:44ogracrimsun: for MOTU i'm happy to do it...but i dont know all the members out there
05:45crimsunogra: gotcha.
05:45ograKamion: i'll contact him
=== mako would personally be most comfortable putting off a decision on snaggen until the next meeting.. to let the contributions develop a little bit
=== haggai sighs at bouncy internet connection today
05:46makosee if we can the packages cleaned up and into the archive
05:46ograyup
05:46makoi don't suspect it will be a problem :)
05:46Kamionogra: (I've left a note on his wiki page)
05:46ograah, great
05:47makoKamion, elmo_: any objection to deferring the decision irt snaggen until next week/meeting?
05:47elmo_mako: no, sounds like a plan to me
05:47makoAaronLake
05:47Kamionyeah, his blog said he installed Ubuntu on 23 Jan, seems kind of soon :)
05:47makometalikop
05:47ograhe helped a lot already...
05:47ograon the pythin transition
05:47ogras/i/o
05:47makoexcellent
05:48dholbachyes... i uploaded 2 or 3 of his python packages
05:48Kamionit would be helpful if metalikop would put his contributions on that wiki pgae
05:48Kamionpage
=== mako nods
05:48makothere is very little there
05:48Kamionthe PHP5 thing seems to be there by accident, judging from the history
05:48Kamionhttp://www.metallikop.com/blog/index.php?p=50 has some packages
05:48ograKamion: it is on the python transition page
05:49dholbachthey are mentioned here: http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/UniversePythonTransitionTODO
05:49dholbach(quite at the end)
05:49Kamionbut only links to binaries, and the directory gives 403
05:50makoKamion: what is your feeling.. ask for a more threshed out page? with contributions?
=== Kamion leaves a blog comment
05:50ogralok at imgsizer, cfv, duplicity and gnome-mud in universe
05:50ogralook even
05:51dholbachhe has them hosted at: http://ubuntu.arslinux.com/hoary/uploaded-to-hoary/
05:51crimsunI've helped him with package reviews; he's definitely prime for membership imo
05:52Kamionok, based on recommendations I'm ok with him for membership, but I'd like him to produce a more fleshed out page before maintainership/MOTU
05:52makocrimsun, ogra, dholbach: alright.. i'm willing to take your recommendations
05:52elmo_yeah, me too
05:52makogreat
05:52elmo_(god we're all so easy)
05:52ograheh
05:52dholbachhehe
05:52makoLukeYelavich
05:52makometalikop = member
05:53makoluke is TheMuso_, yes?
05:53ograhavent seen any packages, but he did a reasonable liveCD contribution according to the ML
05:53TheMuso_mako: That is me, yes.
05:54makoTheMuso_: the wiki pages should include information on the contributions to the community you have already done as well as stuff you are interetsed in working on
=== Kamion digs up the thread
05:54makoi guess some of that is there
05:54makoTheMuso_: want to give us the executive summary?
05:54makoaccessiblity documentation?
05:54makoahh.. i remember this thread
05:55sivangTheMuso_: you can use this page as a template http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/SivanGreen :-)
05:55KamionI haven't looked at the accessible live CD yet, but if it does what it says on the tin it's definitely a major contribution
05:55TheMuso_Ok. In the accessibility team area of the wiki, http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/AccessibilityTeam I have recently created some pages where GNOME apps could be listed as being accessible or otherwise, and also created a page on the Live CD work I am currently doing. This work is also known upstream with the Gnome accessibility devleopers.
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=== mako followed that thread and a few others luke has participated in.. that plus the documentation counts IMHO
=== mako votes in favor
05:58ogramako++
05:58Kamionoh, in case it wasn't obvious, my comment above was a vote in favour
05:58TheMuso_Kamion: The live CD was available on a torrent, however it is currenlty not up atm, and I am not at that box either.
05:58makoelmo_: ?
05:58makoNiallSheridan is up next
05:59ogradredg
05:59makoogra: alright
05:59makoalso done some python stuff, no?
05:59ograhas helped on the python transition
05:59makoright, i caught that earlier..
05:59ograhis mbot package is in universe
06:00makoand has a little repo of packages online
06:00ograyup
06:00dholbachi already uploaded mbot for him, although his NEW packages unfortunately always clashed with other peoples plans :-)
06:00makoogra, dholbach: what are you feelings?
06:00ograthubs up from here
06:00dholbachi'd be happy to have him in the MOTU crew :-)
06:00ograthumbs even
06:01makodholbach: well, bring taht one up with ogra and Treenaks  :)
06:01dholbachmako: yes... of course
06:01elmo_mako: I'm okay with it if you two are
06:01crimsunhe's good for membership imo
=== mako feeling is a yes as well...
06:01ograso lets make him a member :)
06:01makoi've seen some of the pythno work
06:01makoKamion, elmo_: almost done
06:02makoKamion, elmo_: feelings about dredg?
=== dredg spots the glowy yellow
06:02Kamionsorry, catching up, one sec
06:02dredgsorry, work kind of got in the way there
06:02Kamionthe wiki pages need to have a more useful <title> than "Ubuntu - wikipage", damnit
06:02dholbachKamion++
06:02ograKamion+++
06:02TheMuso_Agreed. :)
06:02dholbachhehe :-)
06:03Kamiondredg: could we have source packages in http://niall.frogstomp.com/ubuntu/, please? hard to tell much from just .debs
06:03dredgKamion: yes, of course. that's due for a bit of an overhaul
06:03dredgKamion: there are some things in /wip
06:04dholbachwell and: http://niall.frogstomp.com/python/mbot/
06:04sivangKamion++
=== Mithrandir watches Kamion overflow and become -(2^64-1)
06:05Mithrandir(at least his karma :)
06:05dholbachmbot is in universe
06:06dholbachi reviewed and uploaded it
06:06ograi've seen that one too and it was ok...
06:07KamionI'm ok with dredg
06:07dholbachwoohoo
06:07ografine
06:08makocool
06:08makostill waiting on elmo for the last two
06:08makoon more member candidate:
06:08makoJaniMonoses
06:08ograhas worked on pythoncad
06:08dholbachjani also did some python transition work
06:08elmo_mako: eh? two?  anyway, ok with dredg
06:08ograwhich is uploaded for him in universe
06:08makoelmo_: oh never mind.. missed your last message i guess :)
06:08dholbachi have two packages which just need minor changes to pass
06:09makodredg = member
06:09dholbachwell... two packages of  jani
06:09makojani: you around?
06:10janihere
06:10makowant to give us the summary of your contributions to ubuntu so far?
06:10janione package uploaded by dholbach as part of pythontransition
06:10janitwo more pending review
06:10Kamionjani: (the text-based bullet point syntax you've used in the rake.1 man page isn't particularly great for man pages, BTW; might want to read groff_man(7) for how to do lists)
06:11janione package unrelated to python, new not in debian yet
06:11janiKamion: it was either what dh_make generated
06:11Kamionwell, I say "lists", really indents is all you get in -man, -mdoc's better at that
06:11Kamionjani: no, I'm referring to the text you pasted in, it needs to be reformatted for use in a man pages
06:11Kamionpages
06:11KamionAARGH page
06:11janior what I copied form man ls(1)
06:12janiOk was my first manpage :)
06:12dholbachi'm very comfortable with him nevertheless
06:12Kamionyou need to look at the source, not the output :)
06:12ograhe was very helpful already in the python transition...
06:12janikamion, yep man ls(1) viewed with vim
06:12Kamionanyway, I'm ok with jani
06:13janiI copied from the osurce
06:13Kamionjani: let's talk about it separately from the meeting
=== mako is alright with jani also
06:14makoelmo_: ?
06:14makoso.. with that out of the way
06:14makosmurfix: still not around?
06:14makois there anyfurther business for the CC?
06:15makogoing once
06:15sivangogra: would you be happy with me as a MOTU? I've only worked on the gnome-system-tools and system-tools-backends pkgs
06:15Simirais it possible to get the ubuntu-no mailing list open without LoCo up and running?
06:15makosivang: lets handle this after teh meeting
06:15sivangmako: sure
06:15mako(or in another channel)
06:16Simira(I've bugged both smurfix and jdub about it, and did send a mail to Jeff as I was told)
06:16makoSimira: i think the two should go hand-in-hand
06:16Simiramako: ok
06:16makoSimira: but i don't see that as a problem.. many loco's are little more than their list and a wiki
06:16Simiramako: so I'll have to wait for the next cc then?
06:16makoSimira: not at all
06:16makoSimira: smurfix can approve you as a loco leader and just tell us about it
06:16MithrandirSimira: I could just make brukere@ubuntu.no or something :)
06:17makoSimira: it can happen latter today
06:17makoand jdub is the person who can make the lists
06:17Mithrandir(users@ubuntu.no for those who doesn't do Norwegian)
06:17SimiraMithrandir: rather translation or oversettelse would be nice
06:17makoSimira: sound good?
06:17Simiramako: I did both talk to him on IRC and mail him. But that's ok.
06:17Simiramako: good
06:17makoSimira: i think it's a formality at this point. :)
06:17makoany other business?
06:18Simiramako: I suppose :)
06:19makoalright then
06:19makoKamion, elmo_: any objections to the same time in two weeks?
06:20Kamionthis time works well for me, although I've noticed smurfix doesn't tend to be able to make this time which is a bit inconvenient
06:21dholbachjani would still need an ACK of elmo_ i guess?
06:21makodredg: yeah.. we'll get to it
06:21makoKamion: right, but smurfix is also not here to tell us what time he could make :)
06:22makoalright, then.. lets say 1600 on the 8th
06:23makoperhaps a bad time
06:23dredgmako: hmm?
06:23ograoh, yes, we're still missing elmos vote for jani
06:24ogra(or against ?)
06:24makono.. nevermind.. it seems to be a fine time
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06:24makoalright
06:24makothanks everybody for showing up!
06:24makoi'll post a summary
06:24TheMuso_Welcome.
06:24ogramako: jani ?
06:31sivangthanks all, laterz.
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06:31makoogra: what abut jani?
06:31ogramako: member or not ?
06:32ogramako: elmo didnt answer your last question.....and you moved on to loco
06:35makoogra: still waiting for elmo. but probably yes
06:35ograjust thought you missed it :)
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06:47elmo_sorry, had to deal with some people at DC
06:47elmo_ok with jani, if I'm not too late
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06:56metalikophi all
06:56dholbachmetalikop: you've been made a member
06:56metalikop!  Thank you very much.
06:56dholbachyou'll have to read  http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/ubuntu-meeting-current.html , i fear
06:57janithanks all
06:57janibye
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07:02dholbachbye
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07:44makoelyou're not too late
07:44makometalikop: if you wait for a bit, there will be a summary
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07:46ogramako: http://www.livejournal.com/users/lifeguardasleep/21211.html
07:48makonice! :)
07:48makoogra: who is lifeguardasleep?
07:48ograyup :)
07:48ogradholbach
07:48makoahh, nice :)
07:49ajmitchogra: btw who was chosen to approve new MOTUs & review packages?
07:49ajmitchMithrandir?
07:49ograand Treenaks
07:49ajmitchok
07:49ograso we have a fallback if one is missing.... which is a great thing
07:50ajmitchyep
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08:12smurfixBah. Last time I was on vacation with a broken hard disk this time I had to fix my uncle's box .. with a broken harddisk. :-/
08:14zulso suck up to those two :)
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09:20smurfixjust for the record, the meeting time is OK for me
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